(1:30) Mitch introduces Tracey Zimmerman (President of Robots and Pencils), and Ryan Gialames (education technologist at large). Thus begins a Zoom interview with so much compression it sometimes sounds like autotune. T-Pain, don't steal our hooks. (4:15) We cite the core advantages of online learning in respect to Telekinetic's technology-eats-transportation credo -- the asynchronous environment, the rewatchable/relivable material, and the democratization of giving everyone the same seat since they all paid the same price of admission. (10:10) We hear a familiar theme of toppling ivory towers, as Tracey recounts tirelessly trying to prove the value of online learning environments to established educators, only to uncover they couldn't prove their own value. Mitch forgets he graduated 15 years ago, not 20. (17:03) Ryan offers a theoretical counterpoint: that school is where you go to shop for the kind of person you want to be. (20:20) Tracey talks about the potential of Earn & Learn -- a hybrid model coordinating higher ed tracks with industry & employer skills in demand. (25:48) Mitch offers up his hot take: the religion of "personalized learning" is a recipe for algorithms as teachers. Ryan and Tracey deliver a few excellent insights as to why personalized learning isn't the be-all and end-all. (30:31) The gang fawns over Peloton as a shining example of virtual courses, and Ryan reveals he's only on the pod to get referral bonuses.